tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post2096107026248761868..comments2024-02-11T08:56:42.753+00:00Comments on It's Not A Zero Sum Game: Riots and tabloids and looters, oh my! A feminist reading of #UKRiots reportageMarina Shttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-91053622988153447112011-08-28T19:28:26.973+01:002011-08-28T19:28:26.973+01:00@Anonymous: This is technically true (53% to 47% a...@Anonymous: This is technically true (53% to 47% according to the NMA). I'm slightly at a loss as to what conclusions we're supposed to derive from this lonely datum though...MartinOhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05342060731023044114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-60803980328970587152011-08-27T23:16:44.452+01:002011-08-27T23:16:44.452+01:00The daily mail's readership is mainly female.The daily mail's readership is mainly female.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-25924117016889987372011-08-22T11:48:09.711+01:002011-08-22T11:48:09.711+01:00@Jane (hope you're still reading): I've re...@Jane (hope you're still reading): I've read your CiF article now, and have not one comma to change or disagree with. It is a absolutely pitch perfect, and I am currently a one-woman ridiculous feminist love-in. :)Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-81312289312773624922011-08-22T10:49:36.282+01:002011-08-22T10:49:36.282+01:00*shrug* Again, I've never said that something ...*shrug* Again, I've never said that something that is commonplace can't be of concern. Oddly, your own line "I'm not really interested in engaging with it (because as mentioned above, if I had a dollar for every time etc.)" appears to reflect exactly that belief, but you are of course at liberty to project if you so desire.<br /><br />I *do* believe that there's a difference between evidence, where causality can be demonstrated or alternative explanations eliminated, and random facts where you can often show correlations but they're likely to be coincidences; I don't pretend that this approach will work for everyone's belief system though.MartinOhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05342060731023044114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-5802366915985842142011-08-22T09:52:06.061+01:002011-08-22T09:52:06.061+01:00Oh and @beyoungshutup of course! Thanks for wantin...Oh and @beyoungshutup of course! Thanks for wanting to share. :)Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-19821962476132657352011-08-22T09:48:56.234+01:002011-08-22T09:48:56.234+01:00Martin and Peter are making essentially the same p...Martin and Peter are making essentially the same point here: my analysis is wrong not because it is factually wrong per se, but because what I describe is commonplace, and as such normal, and as such can't be of concern. It's an argument from privilege par excellence, and I'm not really interested in engaging with it (because as mentioned above, if I had a dollar for every time etc.).<br /><br />Everyone else: rock on! Interesting discussion.<br /><br />PS Dear Anonymous brave person, I like to use the words I like to use. Suck it up.Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-2957257540262465892011-08-20T09:03:40.775+01:002011-08-20T09:03:40.775+01:00Peter,
You are aware that there is something of a...Peter,<br /><br />You are aware that there is something of a rhetorical problem with i) implying that Marina's analysis of the misogyny expressed in the coverage of the riots is based on some (no doubt hysterical) act of over-imagination while at the same time ii)exhibiting your misogyny. <br /><br />We know you don't like it when we point it out (if most feminists I know had a penny for every time they were told they were y'know, just making things up in their heads...because, of course, it is a sheer act of typically feminine oversensitivity to suggest that there might be any connection between the routine objectification of a women on page three of a newspaper and the feminisation of the riots in the same publication). But really, if you wanted your pat dismissal to have any chance of hitting home you should have tried to control yourself better.<br /><br />"It is in fact a manufactured social order that has allowed woman the human rights we give her today in developed nations."<br /><br />Now, you're just making it too easy for us...jayseajayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06952298478669516062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-6912145611050772352011-08-20T08:51:13.636+01:002011-08-20T08:51:13.636+01:00@Marina It's certainly not an argument that I ...@Marina It's certainly not an argument that I made. My point was that the examples you cited failed to demonstrate that gender was the reason for their selection, since the personal circumstances of the individuals concerned would have made them equally "newsworthy" as rioters without any reference to their sex. It's probably not actually provable or disprovable either way though.MartinOhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05342060731023044114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-55742283327178506182011-08-20T07:53:59.674+01:002011-08-20T07:53:59.674+01:00It's "unnecessary" not "unecess...It's "unnecessary" not "unecessary". Nitpicking is more fun than debate.<br /><br />JimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-26727443606114027832011-08-20T07:50:53.853+01:002011-08-20T07:50:53.853+01:00Are you just a fan of using long words when shorte...Are you just a fan of using long words when shorter will do? Perhaps you are trying to attract those with a similar intellect to your own and keep away the morons? I'm all for good writing - which this is, but the unecessary alienating of those who cannot be bothered to rush to the dictionary or thesaurus is pointless. Oh and it is "Chomskyan manufacturing of consent" not "Chomskian manufacturing of consent".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-6358441806370714522011-08-20T01:47:58.144+01:002011-08-20T01:47:58.144+01:00I think you let your feminism get the better of yo...I think you let your feminism get the better of you.<br />Yes tabloids are bad and Daily Mirror and Fox television are horrible, but this is no support for your theories of misogyny and patriarchal control...<br /><br />The more interesting stories are obviously about the women and not the men for the reasons you have already mentioned, they are less typical so they surprise us more, and we want to be surprised. Do you really think people need more stories about that most people in Jail are men? Most murders are by men killing other men. Men are more brutal, more aggressive in general. This was always so and is not likely to change. People are bored with this and it is not selling papers. Stories about girls are more interesting and used as a way of implying that it has now gone so far even girls are involved.<br /><br />Again, the tabloids will never come with the analyses explaining the phenomenon, my own is more along Hannah Arendt's banality of evil combined with "the opportunity makes the thief".<br /><br />Your low-point is when you talk about bikinis, page-3 girls and manufacture social order, which is quite ridiculous. It is in fact a manufactured social order that has allowed woman the human rights we give her today in developed nations. Without this, muscular strength would confine her to the background, just as it happens in less developed areas of the world.<br /><br />And it is even possible to enjoy porn without denying women the same sexual freedoms that men take for granted for themselves. You can thus enjoy pictures of naked women and bikinis at the same time as you support the slutwalk.<br /><br />I think however that ultimately you will stick to your theories, because it gives you a raison d'etre to see all this organised misogyny everywhere, just like those NWOers see their world.<br /><br />Peter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-37191397673651192632011-08-19T17:59:46.233+01:002011-08-19T17:59:46.233+01:00Marina...Hello!..We bumped into each other a few w...Marina...Hello!..We bumped into each other a few weeks ago, when you made a series of excellent contributions to the thread on the piece I wrote for the Guardian on Anders Breivik. Anyway, this is just to say...this is a superb piece, I couldn't agree with you more...in a certain sense...rioting - as a transgression of social boundaries - is always going to be coded in the popular imaginary as feminine...and, as you suggest, linked through a system of identitarian logic to issues of uncontrolled female sexuality. I wrote a piece at the beginning of the week on some related issues... http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/15/riots-compassion...<br />and how the misogyny at work in the discourse about the riots is connected to the opposition between authoritarian morality and an ethic of care...I'd be very interested in your thoughts...jayseajayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06952298478669516062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-61125295904770847912011-08-19T17:37:52.154+01:002011-08-19T17:37:52.154+01:00interesting read (first time reader!) although I t...interesting read (first time reader!) although I think MartinOh has a point - the covers tend to be focusing on the the olympics angle rather than the female angle.Jasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-9798070747699322972011-08-19T17:11:48.800+01:002011-08-19T17:11:48.800+01:00Please can I repost this on my blog, beyoungshutup...Please can I repost this on my blog, beyoungshutup.wordpress.com ? <br /><br />Keep preaching, sister<br /><br />Kate xAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-5069792337116329072011-08-18T19:07:12.928+01:002011-08-18T19:07:12.928+01:00I too believe that sainthood is conferred with a v...I too believe that sainthood is conferred with a vagina.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-2490633451879442292011-08-18T12:36:31.646+01:002011-08-18T12:36:31.646+01:00@Anna: that's a good idea, I'll post it up...@Anna: that's a good idea, I'll post it up there.<br /><br />@Delilah: thank you! :)<br /><br />@Martin: Dude. It's ok to concentrate on these particular atypical cases because they are really-really atypical? Is that even an argument?Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-11419988686267256252011-08-17T21:19:31.894+01:002011-08-17T21:19:31.894+01:00Excellent blog. All through last week the comments...Excellent blog. All through last week the comments were of the order of 'Both girls and boys involved'. I'm hearing the same comments about class. When there's an inequality, people will do anything to deny to themselves it exists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-4715000695938680602011-08-17T18:29:40.623+01:002011-08-17T18:29:40.623+01:00Your points about the overwhelming preponderance o...Your points about the overwhelming preponderance of males being involved in the rioting are well made. Your assertion though that "it's instructive to consider what atypical profiles particularly draw papers: the very young, and women", seems somewhat disingenuous when the subject of five of the six front page stories you cite also has the distinguishing factor of being a former Olympic Ambassador and who in her guise as a football player for Leyton Orient Women's FC has been happy to be described as a role model for other young people. Whilst your take on this may be correct and her presence on the front pages may be a patriarchal conspiracy, it seems fair to say that hers is an "atypical, non-representative" story for reasons other than her sex. Similarly in the sixth case, it is arguable that the headline grabbing part of "Millionaire's Daughter" in the context of rioting and looting is the first word rather than the second.MartinOhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05342060731023044114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-56279166695664925682011-08-17T18:05:15.624+01:002011-08-17T18:05:15.624+01:00**applause**
Maybe the first few paras could up ...**applause** <br /><br />Maybe the first few paras could up on the reps of women blog? This needs to be put out there! <br /><br />xxannifrangipanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13425966593248133489noreply@blogger.com