tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post734003836604815451..comments2024-02-11T08:56:42.753+00:00Comments on It's Not A Zero Sum Game: Actual real human women of 2011Marina Shttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-53318321634402114232012-01-12T03:02:27.997+00:002012-01-12T03:02:27.997+00:00To expand on the above rant - what also pisses me ...To expand on the above rant - what also pisses me off about the 'shouldn't you be furious about this more important issue' thing is that the people who make those comments are rarely doing anything to combat FGM/child poverty etc etc, because you know, that's feminists' job. And the fact that you've been observed doing one piece of social justice activism means you now have an obligation to right all the wrongs of the world. It's like a person who has never done one thing to try and address homelessness watching a stranger purchase a copy of the Big Issue and then walking up and having a go at them for not volunteering at a night shelter. Just, WTF?Tanyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-27622971833745746402011-12-30T15:18:48.427+00:002011-12-30T15:18:48.427+00:00This kind of 'Feminists should concentrate on ...This kind of 'Feminists should concentrate on 'better' things' bullshit it so prevalent, it's really starting to bore me.<br /><br />Yesterday when I pointed out that the men responding to Helen Lewis-Hastley's question about feminism in 2012 were all just saying we should be less 'shrill' and 'angry', some dude who'd never read my tweets or blog started telling me I should actually be angry about 'female circumcision, starvation and child abuse'. I responded sarcastically, thanking him and telling him it had never crossed my mind to be angry about those things before. He responded, saying it was 'obvious' I hadn't, and apparently 'self-indulgence was more to my liking'. <br /><br />Which was when I pointed out that only two tweets before the one he had seen I'd been raising awareness for an anti-FGM event taking place in London, and that my most recent blogpost had been about a conference where I'll be having an anti-FGM speaker. After he demanded I RT the tweet at him because apparently he 'couldn't see it' on my timeline (two tweets down!), he apologised, saying 'Oh, OK, so you do some good".... uhm, thanks. Glad I got this opportunity to prove myself to you since you can't do any research on your own.<br /><br />Sorry that was a bit rambly, but seriously, fuck that shit. I don't know a single feminist who would get pissed off at the BBC thing but not at (e.g.) child poverty. Such a shitty strawman of an argument.<br /><br />Great list and great post as ever, M.TheNatFantastichttp://www.fortyshadesofgrey.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-58582853748678579592011-12-30T10:16:55.002+00:002011-12-30T10:16:55.002+00:00First of all, who gets to say that other things ar...First of all, who gets to say that other things are "better" to be furious about? You? Why? <br /><br />Secondly, even accepting that there are, how do you know I'm not furious about them too? Or have you just waltzed in and bestowed us with your opinion without so much as glancing at the rest of my blog?<br /><br />Feminists are not Tinkerbell. We can have more than one emotion at a time.Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-60687588978637140492011-12-30T04:39:15.305+00:002011-12-30T04:39:15.305+00:00I'm kidding, by the way. All in all, I find th...I'm kidding, by the way. All in all, I find the argument to be rather stupid. Maybe I don't understand the issue aas much, but I think there are better things to be furious about.Connornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-13804543892172179452011-12-30T04:36:50.740+00:002011-12-30T04:36:50.740+00:00The real problem is that the panda wasn't in t...The real problem is that the panda wasn't in the kitchen...Connornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-38237013200458672982011-12-29T20:02:01.181+00:002011-12-29T20:02:01.181+00:00Oh and also, don't you find that the great exp...Oh and also, don't you find that the great explorers tend to be famous for having failed in the first place? Columbus didn't find India; Livinstone didn't find the source of the Nile; Shackleton failed to reach the South Pole. Some advertisement for the vaunted male sense of direction.Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-13572156944673292832011-12-29T19:21:59.989+00:002011-12-29T19:21:59.989+00:00Hmm, I think your intuition is largely correct, gi...Hmm, I think your intuition is largely correct, given that we do know that some male explorers/discoverers/missionaries were accompanied by women... But no, I can't think of any off the top of my head. It's not an area I'm particularly interested in, and given the likelihood that women explorers' discoveries have been suppressed, their renown simply hasn't reached me...<br /><br />Having said that, there have been female pole expeditions and lots of female round the world sailors, rally drivers and aviators. Tasteless jokes about Amelia Aerheart aside, I'm sure at least some of them could read a map... :)Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-30407006411268313202011-12-29T16:42:36.880+00:002011-12-29T16:42:36.880+00:00Tra-la, tra-la :)
Good article - I especially agr...Tra-la, tra-la :)<br /><br />Good article - I especially agree with your line:<br /><br />"It's a prime example of the gendercide endemic in our cultural narratives: women are held back by the absence of precedents and role models, and existing precedents and role models are either erased or distorted."<br /><br />I was last night having a friendly disagreement with someone on women and geography - he asked how many female explorers I could name (this was, natch, in relation to women having poorer spatial awareness - not the same thing as geographical exploration but this was not a serious grudge match or intellectual argument). I could name none - and assume this is because a single (respectable) woman, unescorted by a male relative, would never be let out of the house alone, and that if she were to accompany a man on an exploration mission would not feature in any credits (I think Dr Livingstone might have been accompanied by his wife, as Wordsworth was accompanied by his sister when "alone" with daffodils.<br /><br />Long story short - I agree, and btw, do you happen to know of any female explorers? And would my conclusion about writing history be along the right lines?kelvixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-60498439049181367592011-12-29T10:02:44.355+00:002011-12-29T10:02:44.355+00:00I'm sorry, did you comment on the right articl...I'm sorry, did you comment on the right article? I didn't even mention the name of the person (not sure it was a man) who compiled the list, how can I have "crucified" them?Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-3181471133616595212011-12-29T08:02:55.672+00:002011-12-29T08:02:55.672+00:00I came sailing in here through places abroad on th...I came sailing in here through places abroad on the internet, expecting a cathartic read about the great triumphs for women in the year 2011 represented by their figure heads. Instead I found an article straw manning the BBC into a chauvinistic anti-feminist organisation. I don't have much of a problem with your reading of the BBC article, I have a problem with the anger. The BBC author was only a little miss guided, was there really the need to crucify him? The name of your blog is "not a zero sum game", I agree that feminism is not a zero game game in that; to use another common metaphor a rising tide lifts all ships. However I worry that your anger makes the conversation more adversarial, and by definition a zero sum game, one side wins the other looses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-2711879709337375842011-12-28T21:23:32.590+00:002011-12-28T21:23:32.590+00:00That's a much better list, I wouldn't have...That's a much better list, I wouldn't have even minded if you'd included the panda at the end. ;) The Japanese soccer players are much better though!Kimberleyhttp://sierra-le-oli.livejournal.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-51035419180202018202011-12-28T20:27:42.889+00:002011-12-28T20:27:42.889+00:00Thank you!Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-63674280048899719882011-12-28T18:47:33.908+00:002011-12-28T18:47:33.908+00:00I did consider including Sheryl Sandberg, but give...I did consider including Sheryl Sandberg, but given that I was trying to offer an alternative to the BBC list, I tried to stay close to women who've been in the mainstream news a lot. Basically, if I didn't immediately have a face to put to the name and vice versa, it was a no. A lot of that (excellent) FT list is in that grouping.Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-69692340493563203522011-12-28T18:32:57.333+00:002011-12-28T18:32:57.333+00:00The FT does much better than the BBC. I think it h...The FT does much better than the BBC. I think it helps that they list prominent women by their profession and don't have a "victim" or "married to a famous man" category. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/4ff3d3c8-1fc3-11e1-9916-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1hr4bGzwCHollyThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01018606937895972696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-82102411747271729842011-12-28T18:20:58.781+00:002011-12-28T18:20:58.781+00:00Yeah!Yeah!annifrangipanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13425966593248133489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-5870598438042144572011-12-28T18:06:19.448+00:002011-12-28T18:06:19.448+00:00That's more like it. Thank you Marina.That's more like it. Thank you Marina.HollyThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01018606937895972696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-25873173651274698712011-12-28T17:17:48.588+00:002011-12-28T17:17:48.588+00:00Very refreshing to read after the BBC's list. ...Very refreshing to read after the BBC's list. Thank-you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-58487954915671837782011-12-28T16:50:24.512+00:002011-12-28T16:50:24.512+00:00Yay!! A fantastic article, and a sensible, decent...Yay!! A fantastic article, and a sensible, decent response to the insulting rubbish churned out by the BBC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com