tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post4810980502126847690..comments2024-02-11T08:56:42.753+00:00Comments on It's Not A Zero Sum Game: "TERF" was always going to go mainstreamMarina Shttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comBlogger95125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-6395634252524796862016-11-06T21:04:37.346+00:002016-11-06T21:04:37.346+00:00Thanks for participating in my little experiment, ...Thanks for participating in my little experiment, Anonymous (brave, that, by the way - very Free Speechy). You have helped me demonstrate two key point that support the thesis of my original blog:<br /><br />1. The word "TERF" is the short skirt of ht einternet. Once a woman has been tagged with it, not boundary violation against her is considered out of line.<br />2. That some people who represent themselves as advocates for trans rights have no respect for women's boundaries or preferences, and in fact demonstrate glee in the face of deliberately violating women's consent, even in small matters.<br /><br />Well, and also that you're an asshole who snipes at people & calls them names hidden behind anonymity, then Sea Lions all over the shop about fwee speech. But that was more of an observation than a thesis, really.Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-31768246415909375372016-11-06T20:19:00.196+00:002016-11-06T20:19:00.196+00:00But I thought you guys LUV debate? And free speech...But I thought you guys LUV debate? And free speech?<br /><br />Why is it that TERFs always want to have a "debate" about trans people's identities, but clam up the moment someone actually starts debating them?:P<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-57086975557369279512016-11-06T19:58:05.388+00:002016-11-06T19:58:05.388+00:00Like I said, I would appreciate it if you could re...Like I said, I would appreciate it if you could respect my wishes as to what goes on in my space. This means not posting any more comments.Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-1462436461037585262016-11-06T18:47:32.457+00:002016-11-06T18:47:32.457+00:00Sorry. You started it. Don't blame me if you c...Sorry. You started it. Don't blame me if you can't finish it. <br /><br />Sounds to me like you can't refute my proof, so now you wanna take your ball and go home. It doesn't work that way.<br /><br />I don't recall "free speech" meaning being free to say anything you want without reprisal. Surely you knew not everyone was going to go along with your silly argument, right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-67830575511456589882016-11-06T18:11:38.060+00:002016-11-06T18:11:38.060+00:00I asked you nicely not to carry on with this argum...I asked you nicely not to carry on with this argument here. I would appreciate it if you could respect my wishes as to what goes on in my space.Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-74511259642586905622016-11-06T17:56:06.937+00:002016-11-06T17:56:06.937+00:00Wrong again. Here's an interview with the cis ...Wrong again. Here's an interview with the cis woman who created the term:<br /><br />http://transadvocate.com/terf-what-it-means-and-where-it-came-from_n_13066.htm<br /><br />Maybe if you really cared about "pointless sniping", you wouldn't have posted this ignorant column to begin with. Just saying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-42986372687756731242016-11-06T16:45:54.916+00:002016-11-06T16:45:54.916+00:00As I said upthread, nobody is convincing anybody h...As I said upthread, nobody is convincing anybody here, spirits are getting high & namecaling is beginning to be employed. I think we should break up this party now rather than try to re-litigate half a decade of online arguments in the comments section of one obscure blog. Thanks for all your contributions, but that's enough now. Unless you have a new comment to make specifically on the body of the original article, please refrain from commenting. I hope you can all repsect my wishes in this respect. Thanks, M.Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-15556463024195029762016-11-06T16:40:05.802+00:002016-11-06T16:40:05.802+00:00-- ""Radical Feminism" is in fact t...-- ""Radical Feminism" is in fact trans-inclusive, because trans women are women. Only TERFs (a group given that term BY cis female radical feminists to separate their raving from trans-inclusive radical feminism) reject trans women."<br /><br />I'm afraid that's not true. The acronym was invented by a tweeter called Sabine, who is a trans woman and a person of colour. You can go & find her on Twitter and ask her yourself, although I would imagine if she got wind of the fact you've been giving credit for her invention to the radical feimnists she hates so much, you'd get a well-deserved earful.<br /><br />I'd like to ask everyone to take this as a closing note on this argument. Nobody is convincing anybody, everyone is getting nasty, & frankly I'm not crazy about this kind of pointless sniping being given a platform on my blog. I hope you will all respect my wishes in this matter. Thanks, M.Marina Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14449789093721258516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-2356212060526095642016-11-06T15:31:29.809+00:002016-11-06T15:31:29.809+00:00"Generally the word TERF is what follows a de..."Generally the word TERF is what follows a death or rape threat on Twitter."<br /><br />Yeah, suuuuure. Trans women don't threaten rape. And I've SEEN what passes as "violence" against TERFs:<br /><br />TERF: OMG, you guys!! Trans women are SO violent. They got caught throwing a half-eaten burrito at a TERF for no reason!!<br /><br />Trans Woman: Umm, that woman who had a burrito thrown was giving a transphobic lecture. And the thrower was never actually identified as being trans. But I DID read about a trans woman who was literally curb-stomped in the face for being trans the other day...<br /><br />TERF: You trannies are such drama queens! The amount of violence against you is always over-exaggerated!<br /><br />Yeah, try and lecture me about "violence", TERF. you're hilarious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-31835486006770559802016-11-06T15:18:41.603+00:002016-11-06T15:18:41.603+00:00"If those numbers weren't consistently an..."If those numbers weren't consistently and deliberately inflated, you might have a point."<br /><br />You know, it says TONS about your movement when you have to constantly try to belittle and excuse the horrible amount of violence that is perpetrated on the trans community.<br /><br />Yeah, it says you're scum.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-38855042401045406762016-11-06T14:41:28.522+00:002016-11-06T14:41:28.522+00:00Juno is not a man, and it shows everything wrong a...Juno is not a man, and it shows everything wrong about your particularly abusive form of "feminsm" in one shot when you talk like that.<br /><br />Trans women are women and we're here to stay. We're not going ANYWHERE, and sooner or later, you're gonna have to learn to deal. Cuz that's the only "option" you have left.<br /><br />You know, it's so sad it's almost funny. If you TERF clowns had spent the last few decades attacking the people ACTUALLY harming women (the conservative male movement) instead of crawling into bed with them in order to fight trans people, you might have actually accomplished something.<br /><br />Instead, "Failure" will be the name on your movement's tombstone. And no one will shed a tear when it's gone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-8796961427989023492016-11-06T14:35:31.835+00:002016-11-06T14:35:31.835+00:00Do you really think you can drive me away by calli...Do you really think you can drive me away by calling me a "man in women's clothing", little TERF?<br /><br />You're wrong again. :PAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-21900581102899111562016-11-06T14:33:16.257+00:002016-11-06T14:33:16.257+00:00"Trans peak is coming and it's going to s..."Trans peak is coming and it's going to sweep the world."<br /><br />Darn straight it is. More and more people are becoming knowledgeable and accepting of trans people and our rights. We've made AMAZING strides in the few years. And I see us making even more progress in the future. It's a great time for trans people and our allies.<br /><br />However, I suspect that's not the "peak" you were hopping for, is it? :P<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-56132793384588136782016-11-06T14:26:52.434+00:002016-11-06T14:26:52.434+00:00Oops! You fail again. "Radical Feminism"...Oops! You fail again. "Radical Feminism" is in fact trans-inclusive, because trans women are women. Only TERFs (a group given that term BY cis female radical feminists to separate their raving from trans-inclusive radical feminism) reject trans women.<br /><br />It's always amazing how little so many of you self-proclaimed "radfems" seem to know about the actual history of radical feminism.<br /><br />YOU are not trans. You do not get to "debate" our existence. That debate is LONG over. So it's time for you and your bass-ackward movement to move along. Because feminism neither wants or needs you anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-71454509375389287242016-11-06T13:34:52.994+00:002016-11-06T13:34:52.994+00:00Me thinks this troll is a man in women's cloth...Me thinks this troll is a man in women's clothing. Do not feed. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-39726874126552937282016-11-06T13:31:54.289+00:002016-11-06T13:31:54.289+00:00Trans peak is coming and it's going to sweep t...Trans peak is coming and it's going to sweep the world. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-55018747430323867262016-11-06T12:36:18.293+00:002016-11-06T12:36:18.293+00:00The article is grossly offensive. A man telling wo...The article is grossly offensive. A man telling women how to do feminism, complete with slurs. Juno transitioned less than a year ago and before that was an out and proud gay man. Shame he didn't stay like that. He knows about as much about feminism as my gecko.<br /><br />On top of that, though less important, is that painfully evident fact that Juno Dawson can't write. The quality of the article like, dismal, like. I can only deduce there's a drought of transwomen authors, with commissioning editors scraping the bottom of the barrel. Glamour magazine has pissed off a huge number of women and all for the sake of appearing "progressive" (it really isn't. Men telling women how to do feminism dates back to the 60s to my knowledge.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16433858510873600333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-49688565852817650572016-11-06T01:48:02.700+00:002016-11-06T01:48:02.700+00:00"I mean, if your argument was that TERFs WERE..."I mean, if your argument was that TERFs WEREN'T radical feminists who are trans exclusive, that would at least be a (incorrect) defense."<br />Yeah, you're wrong immediately. You're not even responding to the actual arguments. Radical feminism is a movement for the liberation of females. Transmen ARE included because they are female. Transwomen are not because they are male (they are not being excluded, it's simply not what it's for). This may help clarify:<br />https://rebeccarc.com/2016/11/01/the-word-terf/<br /><br />Radical feminists define women as adult female humans, which is exactly how the word has been used for centuries and still nearly always is. Transwomen are male. This would still be factually true even were their brains actually in some way cross-sexed, which is actually very much open for debate and further research. Therefore defining them as 'women' would require a redefinition of terms, and it would be simply incorrect to treat them as identical with females (why would they have to be? It would surely form its own unique category).<br /><br />Men can claim to be radical feminists all they like, they are not, women define this not them, this is our movement. They do not get to speak over the oppressed class.Leonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-12569490776319899592016-11-06T00:54:36.829+00:002016-11-06T00:54:36.829+00:00" I know how proud we all are to have Juno Da..." I know how proud we all are to have Juno Dawson writing for us, and sharing her journey so honestly and with her usual typically great writing."<br /><br />Oh come ON. Politics aside, she's a terrible writer. You must realize that.<br /><br />"I would consider being insulted by TERF to be a much lesser problem than the vast number of abusive acts and murders that have been inflicted on the trans community."<br /><br />If those numbers weren't consistently and deliberately inflated, you might have a point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-44272687388230477512016-11-05T21:43:32.406+00:002016-11-05T21:43:32.406+00:00"Yes, that is correct. Men cannot be radical ..."Yes, that is correct. Men cannot be radical feminists, and saying you know several reveals your ignorance of radical feminism.<br /><br />Yeah, no. I know several men on the internet that claim to be radical feminists. <br /><br />"This just makes Cheryl's point. As the oppressor class, men, including transwomen, do not get to name us."<br /><br />The only problem with that argument is that (1) trans women are not men (and no, that's no longer up for "debate") and (2) men (or trans women) did not come up with the term. It was invented by a cis female radical feminist named TigTog.<br /><br />So on all counts, you fail. Which doesn't surprise me much. TERFs have been failing for years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-82686009594388418272016-11-05T21:23:36.821+00:002016-11-05T21:23:36.821+00:00Yes, that is correct. Men cannot be radical femini...Yes, that is correct. Men cannot be radical feminists, and saying you know several reveals your ignorance of radical feminism. Radical feminism is concerned with the oppression of women as a sex class, not a gender class, and therefore does not care about men's feelings.<br /><br />"Yeah, no. That's not how it works. White people don't get to use the N word, no matter HOW many people of color use it. Grow up."<br /><br />This just makes Cheryl's point. As the oppressor class, men, including transwomen, do not get to name us. <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-41440960061872330432016-11-05T20:31:55.291+00:002016-11-05T20:31:55.291+00:00>a "women's" magazine (in reality...>a "women's" magazine (in reality, a publication whose aim and purpose is to inform the subordinate class about the terms on which its subordination is to be carried out) <br /><br />Damn. Sharon Thracehttp://transwidow.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-71056013180637104412016-11-05T19:05:36.314+00:002016-11-05T19:05:36.314+00:00"you support hatred of women because you have..."you support hatred of women because you have been taught that in hating women you get more privileges from the patriarchy. you do not promote any feminism, but your own privileges. in this, you are not sorry. you are glad. those privileges are an illusion though, and they are paid by women with their real life. you betrayed women"<br /><br />And yet, if Glamour had published a piece celebrating TERFs, you'd be french kissing their ass right now.<br /><br />Funny how you guys never gave a crap about Glamour until it pointed out what slime you all are. :PAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-27565066655453240492016-11-05T19:02:32.194+00:002016-11-05T19:02:32.194+00:00I'm a feminist, dear. I can't be a "m...I'm a feminist, dear. I can't be a "misogynist". That's not how it works. :PAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6510624476585230434.post-32906810487743933212016-11-05T19:01:26.860+00:002016-11-05T19:01:26.860+00:00Actually, feminism has taken great strides since t...Actually, feminism has taken great strides since the '70's.<br /><br />Shame it left you in the dust.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com